Meeting notes

From Winter Camp INC

Saturday, 02 May 2009

Ethernet chat log:

donna (18:26): hey hey
reni (18:27): ok, i am "here"
amaia (18:27): hi :)
talilief (18:27): hi from tali
Petra (18:37): totally fucked up with the time! sorry
donna (18:39): hey hey
donna (18:39): we're mostly on #etc on irc.indymedia
talilief (18:40): hi petra
Petra (18:40): oh let me load pigin and see if I can find that again
talilief (18:42): we are just trying to figure out which technology to use
reni (18:45): ok, am back to etherpad chat :)
donna (18:45): me too :0
donna (18:45): :)
talilief (18:45): great
aileen (18:46): is anyone still missing?
talilief (18:47): I'll put the main requirements for edting up top.
reni (18:48): ok, great
donna (18:49): i'd like us to look at the point:
donna (18:49): what we still wanted to get done
donna (18:49): but didn't have the time to do
donna (18:49): eg
donna (18:49): discuss the term freedom
donna (18:49): (did that after the event)
donna (18:49): or the button
donna (18:50): and some more discussion around our manifesto?
reni (18:51): sounds good to me
talilief (18:51): we discussed freedom over email. I can put a summary of that discussion based onthose emails.
aileen (18:51): now I see the "issues" in the documentation during the week
talilief (18:51): after the meeting if people are agreeable to that.
aileen (18:51): I think that's an important discussion
reni (18:52): can we work all outcomes of the debate at wc09 and here now into our text sent for the publication in advance?
reni (18:53): like: we have "slogan" as something that we need, and now we have one?
donna (18:54): yes
donna (18:54): i think it's great we have a tagline or slogan
talilief (18:54): yes, I thought we should jsut put our results
donna (18:54): though we still need to put it on our website!
reni (18:56): donna - yes, on our website, definitely
reni (18:56): but also lets delete that stuff we dont want them to publish in their book/pdf/whatever it is going to be
talilief (18:57): definitely
aileen (18:57): agree
donna (18:57): yes
reni (18:58): so, we keep the main structure, right?
aileen (18:59): just reading through the description of our network again
aileen (18:59): I still think it is very good
talilief (18:59): I don't thnk we need the achilles heel and possible remedies for example. We just put in our golas and what we acomplished and then update where we are at.
reni (19:00): agreed to both
aileen (19:00): Are you sure we don't need the Achilles heel?
talilief (19:00): I have a back up if anyone what to plop somethign back in.
donna (19:02): the wiki has a new page
donna (19:02): we don't need to loose the main page
donna (19:02): for the conclusion?
donna (19:02): a before and after page?
reni (19:02): donna- yes, nice!
reni (19:02): tali is just deleting - fun to watch stuff disappear
donna (19:03): oef
donna (19:04): i lost my pidgin irc conenction
reni (19:04): oo
donna (19:04): anyone keeping a log?
aileen (19:04): can we log this chat?
aileen (19:04): can we log this chat?
reni (19:05): i can copy and paste it into a file
reni (19:05): i do
donna (19:05): ok
donna (19:05): well i've been adding stuff to the wiki
talilief (19:06): This is great typical GCA anarchy :-)
aileen (19:06): maybe both of us copy and paste, Reni?
reni (19:07): aileen - sure, go ahead!
aileen (19:07): I just started too, but I crashed my computer lately and have been having trouble with a lot of things
donna (19:07): i've been adding points to the wiki
reni (19:07): ooowe
donna (19:07): and later i'll make wholesome tetx
reni (19:08): donna, super
aileen (19:08): it all works :)
donna (19:08): shall we do a round
donna (19:08): people's feeligns about the WC?
donna (19:08): or am i mixing up stuff
reni (19:09): donna, i guess, on the one hand we should clearify the text
reni (19:10): and on the other we should also reflect on the wc
donna (19:10): yes
reni (19:10): just the question: should that go into their publication?
talilief (19:10): I think a refelction section would be nice.
reni (19:10): which i would agree to, but this is something additional, right?
reni (19:11): so, we work on the existing text and delete and add, what we need
reni (19:11): and when this is done, wen go to a reflection - like: 2 months alter
talilief (19:12): yes, agreed - i say stick to the musts first.
aileen (19:13): "musts" being what they asked for, reflection in this case being our own contribution
aileen (19:13): even though they didn't ask for it
reni (19:14): aileen - yes, and also what we see as nesecary...
Petra (19:16): feeling confused...
Petra (19:16): but I also do think we should concentrate
Petra (19:16): on any edits to the text they sent us
Petra (19:17): most of it we already agreed and worked
reni (19:17): tali is just deleting on etherpad doubles
Petra (19:17): together with donna for the meeting
reni (19:17): (at leat i think, it is tali :))
Petra (19:18): yes I had loaded the doc sent to us on thursday
Petra (19:18): I thought it was saturday
aileen (19:18): Yes, I don't see anything but Tali's color in the document now
talilief (19:18): actaully I was trying to make it read like the results of winter camp instead of the plan for WC
aileen (19:18): that makes sense
reni (19:19): sure, go on
talilief (19:19): If other people start editing then I thinkthings will change colors :-)
donna (19:24): hey hey
donna (19:24): just wondering what we're all doing
donna (19:24): i'm adjusting wiki text
reni (19:25): i am mostly watching tali delete
aileen (19:25): I'm following Tali through this text and copying, pasting the chat
talilief (19:26): I'm just trying to make the text brief and read like a result. Because we had results :-)
donna (19:28): ok cool
reni (19:28): ok, i paste the manifesto now
talilief (19:29): Thanks reni and aileen :-)
reni (19:29): dont think, we need an intro to the manifesto
talilief (19:29): good, maybe just a picture of our posit-its
talilief (19:29): post-its
aileen (19:33): Reading it again, I like the Manifesto
talilief (19:33): the manifesto is great!
aileen (19:35): Now we can take out the original section about the main goals we defined beforehand, right?
talilief (19:36): We can take out anythin we have lots of copies if we need to put somethign back.
talilief (19:36): sorry for typos
aileen (19:36): the section about why we decided we need a manifesto looks like it might also be otherwise useful
aileen (19:38): or maybe not
reni (19:38): tali, you are comenting on the slogan
talilief (19:39): yes
reni (19:39): i think, a slogan should stand for itself
talilief (19:39): how's that? too corny?
reni (19:39): it feels a bit like excusing?
reni (19:39): i would also delete the phrase before with the "this three word slogan...
talilief (19:39): no comment then? It's obvious that there is a doubel-meaning.
reni (19:40): yes
talilief (19:41): please delete what you want to delete :-)
reni (19:41): ok, i delete, lets see how it looks
aileen (19:41): At first I liked the comments, but now I see it without the comments, I think I like it better
reni (19:42): you know, i think, if we need an explanation, we rather need a new slogan :)
talilief (19:42): great maybe some comments will make sens inthe documentaiton part.
aileen (19:42): Good point, Reni
aileen (19:44): Looking at the blog post about the final presentation, it really irritates me:
aileen (19:44): "They now know what they are;"
donna (19:45): oef
talilief (19:45): I haven't seen the blog posts.
reni (19:45): do we :))
donna (19:45): patronising
donna (19:45): ps
donna (19:46): can we log this etherpad chat?
reni (19:46): i am copy-pasting it
aileen (19:46): I'm still copying and pasting the etherpad chat
aileen (19:46): Reni and I both are :)
aileen (19:47): But I presume we can still edit the blog post
aileen (19:47): or replace with our own account of the final presentation
donna (19:50): ok
donna (19:50): i'm fading
donna (19:50): but i've been updating wiki
donna (19:50): all the time
talilief (19:51): where's the blog posts?
Petra (19:51): there was only one and it is here
Petra (19:52): starts with "discussing Identity..."
aileen (19:52): Under the discussion of the website, where it says Sunday, March 8th, 2009
aileen (19:52): That was on the INC web site after the end of Wintercamp
Petra (19:53): I am thinking the march 5th post
Petra (19:53): below
Petra (19:53): and why would we edit or replace the blog post?
talilief (19:53): can you paste in the etherpad?
Petra (19:54): It is in
talilief (19:54): at the top
Petra (19:54): why? wouldn't we want our words at the top?
aileen (19:55): If it is included in the publication about us, I think we can edit it
Petra (19:55): we already asked them to make edits.
Petra (19:55): and they did
aileen (19:56): But texts are always edited again before they are published in print
Petra (19:57): true but usually with the authors.
talilief (19:57): I haven't found th bloody blog post :-)
aileen (19:57): Where are you now, Tali?
Petra (19:57): under the pink sections "manifesto'
Petra (19:58): then you see website plan
Petra (19:58): and then 2 dated posts
aileen (19:58): I just turned on line numbers under the "Options" below
Petra (19:58): yes then at number 82
aileen (19:58): first blog post (i.e. the second) is at 82
Petra (19:58): and at number 97
aileen (19:59): That was the one we asked to have changed
Petra (19:59): yes
Petra (19:59): had the idiotic stuff about not getting on the internet
talilief (19:59): IWhat the Fuck? Is what I say to that blog post?
aileen (20:02): I need to go and get tea, back in a few minutes
talilief (20:02): I don't see any posts except the summary.
talilief (20:05): I have to leave in 30 minutes
reni (20:06): yes, how do we go on?
talilief (20:06): I'll check the wiki for quick summary of web site
reni (20:07): i mean, our website plan goes on the wiki, but not in the publication, or?
talilief (20:07): i don't thinkw e need ot publi=sh our web site plan either.
talilief (20:07): Just a summary - 3 or 4 main points
talilief (20:09): oh - I am so stunned. I didn't see the posts in the etherpad.
aileen (20:10): Sorry, I'm back now
donna (20:11): i don't see changes either...
aileen (20:11): Yes, better, quick summary of the web site, not the whole plan
donna (20:11): or am i missing something?
reni (20:12): no, nothing was deletesd yet, just thinking out loud
donna (20:12): ok
talilief (20:13): sorry gals - what are we/you editing?
reni (20:14): i am just deleteing parts of the websiteplan description
aileen (20:14): My mail program crashed again, what did Margreet say about what was going into the publication?
aileen (20:14): Were the blog posts just intended as an aid for us, so that we can just take them out?
donna (20:15): i'm not editing anyhting
donna (20:15): i keep up the wiki
talilief (20:16): All the text in orange (Tali) was pasted in from Audrey's etherpad.
talilief (20:17): I didn't realize those were blog posts.
aileen (20:17): As I understand it, that was the whole email that Margreet sent to Donna
Petra (20:19): stepping away for a moment
reni (20:19): hups, shortly hot confused
reni (20:19): got...
reni (20:19): there is all material in double...
reni (20:19): anyhow
reni (20:20): first suggestion of what should remain in the text as description of the website
aileen (20:20): It looks like everything after line 149 can be deleted
reni (20:21): gone :)
aileen (20:23): So now it looks like just the question of the blog posts
aileen (20:23): Should we just replace them with our own conclusion?
aileen (20:26): Could someone check the original email?
reni (20:26): well, also petra's buzzword bingo should go in there, and pics of the buttons and the labrats
reni (20:26): what do you need?
talilief (20:26): margreet's email?
reni (20:26): on the very top of this etherpad is a list of things they want
aileen (20:27): Yes, to check again what they specifically want from us
aileen (20:27): I'm looking at that, it says they want documentation during the week
talilief (20:27): I posted the 6 points st the top
talilief (20:27): of etherpad.
reni (20:27): and the final presentation of course
aileen (20:28): So we could use the blog posts for that or else put something else in ourselves, right?
talilief (20:28): I am confused.
talilief (20:30): Margreets said: Furthermore we would like to inform you that a week ago we send an email and concept-text to all the moderators about our forthcoming publication of Winter Camp. A concept-text to contribute to this publication, which will be issued before the end of this year. We asked the moderator and the network to rewrite the concept-text, insert own text, new conclusions and follow ups for the future within your network.
reni (20:30): aileen - yes, we can add whatever we want to, and only quote the blog, or refer to it, in my undertsanding
reni (20:31): oh, have to take a break - phone call...sorry
aileen (20:32): So we are close to being finished then, I think
aileen (20:33): We just need to put in something - either parts of the blog posts or something else - about documentation during the week
talilief (20:34): Are we saving this etherpad. I am going to save it in open office just in case we don't save it in etherpad.
aileen (20:35): Good idea
aileen (20:37): Does everyone need to stop now?
donna (20:38): i've been away for a while
talilief (20:38): I have to go, but I suggest we make of list of things we want published and add them if they are not there.
donna (20:38): yes
donna (20:38): shall we do this via the mail?
talilief (20:38): I will try to tighted up the website overview.
aileen (20:38): ok, good
talilief (20:39): We need a heading/descrption of our other WC products and interventions.
aileen (20:39): list via email
talilief (20:39): or here in ether pad. I guess this page lasts forver?
aileen (20:39): Yes, the bingo, buttons and T-shirts definitely need to go in
talilief (20:40): yes, i agree.
talilief (20:40): who is responsible for handing over th efinal version of the video and pictures?
talilief (20:40): I have neither.
donna (20:40): i am i think
aileen (20:40): but Ushi has them, right?
talilief (20:40): do you have what you need?
donna (20:41): but i don't think pics and video will go in the book
donna (20:41): no
donna (20:41): i have no pics or videos
donna (20:41): i will have to coordinate with you all
aileen (20:41): and Ushi certainly won't want to put her pictures on Flickr
talilief (20:41): maybe pcis, but obviously no videio :-)
donna (20:41): hehe
donna (20:41): yes
talilief (20:42): I especially love the one with donna in her pj's and petra in the background
talilief (20:42): I especially love the one with donna in her pj's and petra in the background
talilief (20:43): I don't think it can be a requirment that we put our oen pictures on flickr.
aileen (20:43): I'll put the log of this chat on the wiki when we stop
donna (20:43): yes
talilief (20:43): But we could put a few shots that are on our wiki - i don't kow.
donna (20:43): thanka
donna (20:43): s
aileen (20:43): I just vaguely remember reading a request like that
donna (20:44): sure
talilief (20:44): Thye requestedmore than once that we put our pics on flickr
donna (20:44): i hardly took any pics
donna (20:44): we produced a lot already
donna (20:44): tshirts buttons and bingo
talilief (20:45): I have to go now. I will try to add more stuff later.
aileen (20:45): So what is our plan now? We save everything and continue later
aileen (20:45): or via email?
aileen (20:46): ok, both I guess
talilief (20:46): If we continue in etherpad, others can easily add if we send the link around.
donna (20:46): yes
aileen (20:46): right
talilief (20:46): helen wanted to add.
donna (20:46): exactly
donna (20:47): leave all windows open
aileen (20:47): the deadline is May 11th?
donna (20:47): yes
talilief (20:47): I really got to go. sorry.
donna (20:47): bye
talilief (20:47): yes deadline is may 11th.
aileen (20:47): bye, Tali
talilief (20:47): bye. I'll have a look on monady.
donna (20:47): ok
donna (20:47): by aileen
donna (20:47): see you all later
aileen (20:47): bye Donna

Brainstorming

These are ideas that may or may not be integrated somewhere else, mostly with associated links so that we have them in one place.

Web 2.0 / social networks – this is something we need to talk about

Donna’s example: Myngle for learning languages online <http://www.myngle.com>
apparently now oddly popular (Why?): “Poken” <http://www.doyoupoken.com/PokenWeb/corporate/welcome.jsf>
How non-profits can use social media: “Beth’s Blog” <http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog> (also possibly check with Paula about links and suggestions along this line)
Another good example: <http://www.tacticaltech.org>

Discussions of Web 2.0 / social networks from a FLOSS perspective:

Open Software Service definition <http://blog.okfn.org/2008/07/14/open-software-service-definition-launched>
autonom.us: “toward free network services” <http://autonomo.us/about>
good blog post about online social activism: “Your whole Facebook friendlist is watching” <http://bitchmagazine.org/post/your-whole-facebook-friendlist-is-watching>
Additional possibly relevant links: Aileen’s delicious linked tagged “KritischeNetze” <http://delicious.com/aderieg/KritischeNetze>

Links

http://www.womenstec.com/index.cfm/area/Gallery/cat/36/startrow/4

Monday 26 January 2009

irc meeting

Donna, Reni, Petra, Aileen, Ushi, Amaia

Log (first 15 minutes or so are missing - sorry!)

<donna> hehe
<renix> and solder and so
<renix> do some punky ...
<renix> whatever
<roxie> we could just make dishes where everything is balls
<ushi> haha
<ushi> ehm
<roxie> kidding
<donna> well i'm laughing
<donna> i don't know
<ushi> hm but yes if we could combine it somehow with soldering ;)
<aileen> microphones just reminded me of Pascale's intervention in Amsterdam
<donna> right
<ushi> I would agree
<donna> i think we should start a list on the wiki
<renix> yes, wiki is good
ushi lurks at her flight
<renix> lets just throw all ideas there, and then we see, if we can make something out of it
<donna> i'd love to dress up as a stewardess and sing a song
<aileen> The program lists us as a good example at the bottom of that page
<donna> but no idea what it has to do with anything
<renix> :)
<ushi> aileen: VIENNA SCHWECHA KL 1846 V 02MAR 1515 VPRO1AT 02MAR 02MAR 20K OK
<ushi> now I am confused
<aileen> ushi: sorry, March 2nd is Monday
<ushi> so ok then we are fine
<donna> you know
<donna> thinking about the three goals
<ushi> yes
<donna> perhaps we first need to discuss who's our target?
<donna> or not?
<renix> ok
<renix> sure
<donna> did we add that to the proposal?
<aileen> yes, maybe that would help
<donna> it doesn't seem to be there
<renix> dont think so
<renix> so, lets make a list
<renix> i'd say: geeks
<aileen> no, there's talk of user base and target audience, but not who that is
ushi just looks at the long working days of the program
<renix> and women interested in looking what is behind and taing things apart (like also understanding structures, methods9
<renix> (taking thinkgs apart)
<aileen> taking things apart, understanding how things work
<aileen> i.e. control freaks?
<donna> mmm
<aileen> or women who don't like to just follow instructions
<donna> wanting to be in control instead of out of controll
<aileen> sometimes out of control is ok too
<ushi> is this now what we have to define for genderchangers or for wintercamp in general
<aileen> clarifying the relationship between genderchangers and /etc is one of the goals
<donna> for the genderchangers
<donna> are they different target audiences?
<roxie> not necessarily
<renix> donna: i dont think so
<aileen> maybe slightly different?
<ushi> well thought we had this topic already
<aileen> I'm thinking genderchangers has more continuity
<ushi> we spoke about this already
<ushi> but ok again
<aileen> did we come to a conclusion?
<ushi> etc is the roadshow
<ushi> of genderchangers
<ushi> why is this so complicated
<roxie> yes but the question was if the audience was different
<roxie> in line the idea of audience one of the things we mention talking about
<ushi> well of course the audiance of etc is maybe a bit more in the direction of networking
<roxie> "how to represent the essence of Genderchangers to people who have not heard of"
<donna> one of the reasons i was thinking of our audience
<donna> is because of the brand, slogan, site
<donna> yes
<roxie> right
<renix> yes, agreed
<ushi> hm but is not this a topic which should be worked out there ?
<donna> sure
<donna> but it needs to be on our list or plan for the days
<ushi> ok
<donna> i'll make a wiki page planning our days
<donna> brb
<roxie> sounds good to me
<renix> that sounds great, i was just thinking, if there is actually anything we can do to prepare?
ushi blushes
<aileen> planning our working time seems like a good idea
<roxie> I don't think it is a bad idea to try to focus a bit before
<roxie> or
<aileen> we have three days with two 3-hour working sessions each day
<ushi> oh - sorry I did not get it
<ushi> that we are working on dayplans - fine I am silent
<roxie> we could make the whole first day about the abstract, audience, ideas etc
<roxie> and try to make each day after more and more about coming away with something concrete
<roxie> like in our proposal
<roxie> oh! I had in my mind more time
<roxie> that is not much actually
<roxie> are you sure?
<aileen> the morning sessions are actually 3.5 hours, but it is still not a lot of time
<renix> on the other hand, we are all there also during the eating times and so... so i think, it is a lot of time :)
<roxie> true and lots can happen then
<roxie> but it is also important not to push it too much into the social time
<roxie> or we will be fried fast
<renix> yes, right
<aileen> so we need to structure our working time well
<renix> maybe out of the list of ideas we have on the wiki-site, we shold also make a priority listing
<renix> there is quite a lot there
<ushi> please send me the url of our wiki
<renix> what would you think about "a moderator per day" - like somebody holding it together a bit
<ushi> sorry but somehow I lost it
<renix> http://genderchangers.org/inc
roxieNL (~pjirc@y0082se0s.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #etc
<renix> and we change that position every day, so nobody gts overloaded
<ushi> ok - thought wc ...
<roxieNL> just got knock off
<renix> welcome back, roxie
<aileen> moderator per day sounds good
<donna> i've added the days to the planning page
<roxieNL> not sure what just happened but there are two of me now
<aileen> being able to multiply yourself is a useful skill, Petra
<renix> roxie: yes, was not visible here that you got kicked
<ushi> true
<roxieNL> missed the beginning of the moderator idea
<renix> what would you think about "a moderator per day" - like somebody holding it together a bit
<renix> was the idea
roxie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
<ushi> roxie is gone now
<roxieNL> I think that sounds like a beautiful thing
<ushi> yes I think so too
<roxieNL> yes but roxieNL LIVES
renix hugs roxieNL
<renix> so, with the moderator idea we also have some focusing entity during the meetings/work sessions
<renix> great, doona
<renix> donna :) sorry :))
<donna> hehe
<donna> ok so what you think our schedule should look like?
<aileen> donna, don't you have too many days on our list in comparison with the inc schedule?
<donna> ye
<donna> s just noticed
<renix> optimist :)
<aileen> although, if we all arrive on Monday, we could go ahead and start then
<renix> or workaholic :)
<donna> make that day 0
<donna> very geeky
<renix> very nice
<ushi> why did you count 3,5 hours there is a morning session and a afternoon
<ushi> 9:30 to 13:00 and 14:00 to 17:00
<ushi> but ok brain works in morning
<renix> who wants to work on what? i'd like to work on manifesto and such
<donna> i'm generally keeping an overview....
<donna> and entering text into wiki.
roxieNL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
<ushi> I think I also want to work on the manifesto
<renix> cool!
roxie (~pjirc@y0082se0s.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #etc
<renix> hi, roxie :)
<roxie> again
<roxie> this irc really does not like me
<ushi> but I can give a input session on drupal if this is helpfull or usefull
<aileen> I lost my connection briefly and I think I may have missed something
<ushi> or lets say I can help making a list of requirements
<aileen> are we all choosing different things to work on now?
<renix> hm..maybe we can prepare this drupal part, like really testing what we need and collect the open questions, in advance?
<ushi> yes good idea
<aileen> that's something I would like to do
<donna> oh i would love us to discuss what do we really need on the site
<ushi> also donna should do this
<donna> and what not
<donna> yes
<renix> yes
<roxie> yes
<roxie> just to let you know that I will be away in India from feb 12 to 27
<renix> he, great!
<roxie> so I will not be able the be as super involved
<renix> india: http://www.icthelpline.org/content/view/33/2/
<renix> just found that yesterday
<renix> wanted to post that anyways and forgot
<roxie> will try to keep up with the wiki though
<roxie> I am at http://www.informationactivism.org
<renix> for the wintercamp: just looked at the proposal again, and i just think, it is a lot of possibilities there, so maybe choosing main topics is a good thing to do
<aileen> each of us choosing main topics, or main topics to work on together?
<donna> no i think we should work on it together
<renix> i think together
<roxie> do you mean something more than the three areas?
<donna> but we can split the preparation perhaps
<donna> so reni prepares a manifesto template
<renix> ok
<donna> and i make a website wireframe on paper
<donna> so on?
<renix> he, cool!
<donna> who wants to research branding
<donna> the logo
<donna> a slogan?
<renix> i can also make a scetch for the bus
<donna> heeh
<donna> me too
<renix> sure!
<donna> i was even thinking an organogram may be nice
<donna> a flow diagram :)
<donna> anyways
<renix> yeah, but this we can do there :) all together drawing with pencils
<donna> true
<donna> but it would be good if someone's prepared something
<aileen> are there things we should bring - like pencils, pictures?
<donna> the history and theory of brands?
<donna> yes
<donna> good idea
<donna> oh
<donna> and i'd love someone to study web-site usaubility best practices
<roxie> what do you mean by the history and theory of brands?
<donna> i've been looking into this
<roxie> me too
<donna> well there are good brands and bad brands
<ushi> ups I lost track
<donna> coco-cola, nike, apple
<donna> and i don't know bad ones
<roxie> spam
<donna> no
<donna> it gives people a feeling
<donna> connecting to that
<ushi> I am the super brand maker
<ushi> look
<roxie> sorry I meant the canned meat spam brand
<donna> like yes i'd wear a che t-shirt
<donna> but not a nike t-shirt
<donna> ah yes
<ushi> http://linz.linuxwochen.at/
<donna> i like ut
<ushi> just joking
<donna> it
<donna> but you know
<donna> one of my first thoughts was cold
<renix> yes
<donna> antartic penguin
<ushi> hihi
<ushi> ok
<ushi> I know of course what you mean
<donna> i would really enjoy doing this with all of you
<roxie> this could also be prep work
<donna> lateral thinking
<donna> brainstorming
<donna> image building
<roxie> to keep an eye out for cool hackable images
<ushi> yes I like that
<renix> yes, sounds good
<donna> thing is
<donna> we already have the pretty effective genderchanger
<aileen> not pink: http://aseachange.com/blog-illusionists/2009/01/the-telegraph-uk-pink-plague-on-the-high-street-widening-gender-gap/
<donna> now we need the soundbite to go with it
<donna> pink yes, it's everywhere it's everywhere
<roxie> no I like the genderchanger but it can also be hacked to be a stronger 'logo'
<ushi> its also cold is'nt it
<roxie> * thinking til smoke comes out my ears
<aileen> I like the picture on the /etc web site, I'm glad it's back
renix is slipping away, long day...
<donna> yes cold in metallic sense?
<renix> i cant focus on anything anymore, sorry :)
<ushi> yes well its very technical - even i like that
<donna> ok
<renix> more via the list and in the next meetings from my side
<donna> sure
ushi waves renix
renix waves back
<renix> have a good time stil!
aileen waves too
<renix> all best, my dears, looking forward a lot to meeting yoon!
<renix> soon :)
renix has quit (Quit: leaving)
aileen would just like to take a short cigarette break
<roxie> so about the genderchanger image
<roxie> it seems to me that with a couple of things in this project
<roxie> like the image we need to make a decision and then commit to it
<roxie> so for example we decide the genderchanger must stay
<roxie> and then we think about all the creative ways we can play with that image
<ushi> yes this is a way
<ushi> ok I will also go now
<ushi> try to dream about it
<roxie> hmmm yes are others going?
<donna> well
<donna> i'm still pondering stuff
<donna> i'd be happy to go to bed
<donna> perhaps meet up in a week again?
<ushi> what you mean pondering
<ushi> on the wiki
<donna> about out website
<donna> our
<donna> and the images
<donna> and how i don't like it
<donna> anyways
<ushi> the genderchangers website
<donna> and the stuff that's still broken
<donna> oh no
<donna> sorry the drupal one
<donna> the gc one is a fine static site
<donna> but not dynamic/web2.0
<aileen> I should have waited with the cigarette
<roxie> no its fine
<donna> well you were discussing comittment
<ushi> you know what was the problem with the etc site
<donna> which reminded me of why we're doing this
<donna> to engender susatainability
<ushi> starting without a plan
<roxie> sorry you lost me a bit ETC (drupal) genderchangers (html?)
<donna> yes
<donna> but also
<donna> not having anyone with a clue of drupa
<donna> in a time when it was new
<donna> i believe the double menu entries
<donna> are still a hangover from drupal 4.7
<ushi> sure
<ushi> but you realy did a hard job !
<aileen> are we working on both sites in Amsterdam?
<ushi> no
<ushi> dont think so
<ushi> ?
<donna> no
<aileen> or just Genderchangers?
<roxie> there are more of us now though who can help support this
<donna> but we will be discussing web 2.0
<donna> i hope
<aileen> ok
<ushi> I am sure ;)
<ushi> maybe we should do this a topic on the day list
<aileen> I think that's a good idea
<roxie> sorry lingo 'discussing web 2.0'do you mean moving the genderchangers site to cms?
<roxie> like the etc site
<ushi> no
<roxie> what then
<donna> not necessarily
<ushi> like twitter, facbook
<donna> we need to discuss that
<ushi> facebook
<donna> not like that
<ushi> ?
<aileen> what we can use that makes sense
<donna> but remember i mentioned the learning a languages site
<ushi> yes
<ushi> also
<donna> if we could make the site an interactive classroom
<donna> perhaps that will get the community going again
<donna> web 2.0 is not the same as a social network site
<ushi> community always depends on a lot of contributers
<roxie> if I remember that discussion there was some reluctance about the classroom idea
<roxie> in principle this should be no big technology issue
<aileen> not necessarily a lot of contributors, but certainly committed contributors
<roxie> but it will be a sustainability discussion
<donna> es
<donna> yes
<donna> and what aid sustainability
<roxie> ?
<roxie> did not get that last one donna
<donna> uhm
<donna> trying to find a way to say it
<donna> like windmills are sustainable energy
<donna> a community shouldn't rely on one person
<donna> how to get it to keep regenerating itself
<ushi> yes that what I meant
<donna> i'm neearly the only one updating the gc site
<ushi> its always about needs
<donna> and it's not cos i'm the only one with a login to the site
<donna> there's a list of us
<donna> ok
<donna> so what would someone else need
<donna> to work on the site?
<roxie> ha ha that sounds so familiar
<ushi> no to contribute and get something back
<aileen> brings us back to target audience and a point of identification?
<roxie> full circle
<aileen> sorry, I have a very ambivalent feeling about the term "branding"
<roxie> you mean capitalist, consumer, market kind of ambivalence?
<aileen> yes
<donna> the process of stigmatizing
<donna> cattle branding
<roxie> I hear you.
<aileen> but as ushi said, contributing and getting something back
<aileen> isn't that one of the basic principles of Free Software?
<aileen> also a basic principle of Genderchangers
<donna> or
<ushi> yes this whats the key element and for this its good to know how facebook works and other thing work
<donna> we already got something
<donna> now to give something back
<donna> exactly opposite
<aileen> and to communicate to others that they get something back when they contribute
<ushi> what you mean you already got something
<donna> standing on the shoulders of giants
<donna> a free operating system
<donna> and utilis
<donna> i would would defintely like to discuss this social networks thing
<donna> that's happening everywhere
<donna> something doesn't feel right to me
<donna> and i seem to be one of the only ones
<donna> just this week i was with the girl geek dinner team
<ushi> no I am with you
<donna> just not getting the new Poken rage they were all in
<aileen> no, I absolutely agree with you
<roxie> here is a blog that I follow loosely Beth's Blog: How Nonprofits Can Use Social Media
<donna> and they all just stared at me
<ushi> haha it seems to be virus at the moment yes
<aileen> donna, do you know this site? http://autonomo.us/
<roxie> http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/ some interesting stuff sometimes
<donna> looking at both
<aileen> autonom.us is about the only site I have found, where I have the feeling the kind of discussion I am looking for is actually taking place
<ushi> could we do those links on the wiki :)
<roxie> I am in the dark what the heck is Poken, never mind I will check myself
<ushi> I think cannot look at them now
<donna> poken is usb rfid thingee
<donna> looks like a panda bear
<aileen> I'll put that link on the wiki
<donna> new tamagotchi
<donna> you meet someone
<donna> pull out your pokens
<ushi> thats new for me
<donna> they blink, connect over the airwaves and you've shared your visiting cards
<donna> which is a list of all the social networks you're on
<ushi> which cards
<donna> data file
<donna> on the usb part
<donna> flash card part
<ushi> looks like panda bear
<ushi> ?
<donna> or alien
<donna> usb stick in the shape of a little anime doll
<donna> roxie: back to the question how non-profits can use social media
<donna> i'm sure it's very usefull
<donna> but i'm still sceptical
<roxie> ok had a look at poken and then threw up : Each time you successfully �2018Poken�2019 a new friend, a green light glows on your cute little critter�2019s hand.
<donna> yes, you poke each other
<donna> oef
<aileen> roxie: I agree, I just looked too
<donna> i dunno
<ushi> ok I see you next time think I am too tired
<roxie> had enough poken in my life
ushi has quit (Quit: leaving)
<aileen> Paula knows a lot about non-profits using social media
<roxie> cool
<donna> thing is
<roxie> I think I will go the way of the ushi
<donna> i don't think we'e a non-profit
<aileen> sometimes she gets impatient because people use things so uncritically
<donna> ok
<aileen> but she has a lot of good links on delicious.com
<aileen> looks like it might be time to stop now
<roxie> nighty night
<donna> i'll make a session on discussing social networks, ok?
<donna> ok
<donna> night
<aileen> ok
<roxie> ok
roxie has quit (Quit: roxie)
<donna> bye all
<aileen> donna, shall I make a section for "brainstorming" for collecting links and examples?
<donna> sure
<donna> add lots of text
<donna> we need a summary of this evening een :)
<donna> even
<donna> oh well
<aileen> should we put this log on the wiki?
<donna> yes, but a text file would be better
<aileen> yes, a summary would be better
<donna> i need to figure out how to upload files to the wiki
<donna> anyways
<donna> night night
<aileen> good night :)
<amaia> goodnight
<donna> :)
<donna> xx
<donna> ..
donna (~donna@em48ms6m82.speed.planet.nl) has left #etc
amaia has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
donna (~donna@em48ms6m82.speed.planet.nl) has joined #etc
ChanServ gives channel operator status to donna
<donna> opes :)
donna (~donna@em48ms6m82.speed.planet.nl) has left #etc

tuesday 2 december 2008

Reni, Ushi, Aileen and Donna met in Vienna.

We ended up discussing things like what each of us personally want to get out of this event? The idea of "simply" building a new website didn't seem to be satisfying enough. There is a lot of need for discussion and revue around how we organise, in the past and how to continue in the future. At the same time it needs to be clearer what the Genderchanger's goals and aims are. Who is our target audience? In this sense you can imagine that we work on the content that will be on the website. Donna mentions her position around "discussing", that she has had little positive expereince in the sense of outcomes around discussions.

What has made us successful? A fantastic website, many, in-depth and well-facilitated discussions? In Donna's opinion it's been the fact that we've consistently managed to organise local workshops and the annual, international event. Many people see those e-mails Calling for Participation come round every year. Activity is in her opinion a guage for succes.

We concluded that perhaps question we need to ask is: How do we get the "Me Too" feeling engendered into young women not involved yet?

We all reminissed about the time when we were young and which female role models sparked in us the consciousness that all is not well and we need to change it. We decided that we're now those old role models.

sunday 16 november 2008

Donna met Petra to ask her what she thinks might help the Genderchangers. Petra had two excellent suggestions.

a mobile unit, a road trip
a kit to help get new genderchangers chapters started

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